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https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/email/stds-802-11-tgbf/msg02199.html
I’ve uploaded the received comments to mentor:  https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/23/11-23-1394-00-00bf-lb276-comments-and-approved-resolutions.xlsx A few action items: PoCs : Please review the comments that I have tentatively assigned to your area, and let me know if you any changes are needed.
https://grouper.ieee.org/rac/private/email/msg00435.html
If Peter's concerns are properly paraphrased in the previous paragraph, then I note that: 1) Peter is an authority on 1212 & 1394. 2) Peter has valid points of concern.
https://grouper.ieee.org/rac/private/email/msg00968.html
The relevant standards include: CSMA/CD (IEEE 802.3, ISO 8802-3) Token Bus (IEEE 802.4, ISO 8802-4) Token Ring (IEEE 802.5, ISO/IEC 8802-5) IEEE 802.6 (ISO/IEC DIS 8802-6) FDDI (ISO 9314-2) WLAN (IEEE 802.11, ISO/IEC 8802-11) B) The 'company_id' relevant standards include: defined in IEEE Std 1212-1991 Control and Status Register (CSR) Architecture referenced by IEEE Std 896.2-1991 Futurebus+Physical Layers and Profiles IEEE Std 1596-1992 Scalable Coherent Interface IEEE Std 1394-1995 Serial Bus document.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/email/msg00061.html
The DTV/audio "clusters" will likely be connected together with 1394, but the bridges between 1394 and 802.3+ will have queues as well, so that doesn't reduce the need for queue management.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/17/email/msg00756.html
I'm more familiar with IEEE Std 1394, which distributes&synchronizes timers so that the microphone data can be presented to the amplifier without dropping/inserting samples.
https://grouper.ieee.org/rac/private/email/msg00969.html
The relevant standards include: CSMA/CD (IEEE 802.3, ISO 8802-3) Token Bus (IEEE 802.4, ISO 8802-4) Token Ring (IEEE 802.5, ISO/IEC 8802-5) IEEE 802.6 (ISO/IEC DIS 8802-6) FDDI (ISO 9314-2) WLAN (IEEE 802.11, ISO/IEC 8802-11) B) The 'company_id' relevant standards include: defined in IEEE Std 1212-1991 Control and Status Register (CSR) Architecture referenced by IEEE Std 896.2-1991 Futurebus+Physical Layers and Profiles IEEE Std 1596-1992 Scalable Coherent Interface IEEE Std 1394-1995 Serial Bus document.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/email/msg00067.html
The DTV/audio "clusters" will likely be connected together with 1394, but the bridges between 1394 and 802.3+ will have queues as well, so that doesn't reduce the need for queue management.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/cm_study/public/november04/james_1_1104.pdf
RBR includes features appropriate for the low-latency backplane environment: destination-based flow control, low-power short-haul PHY, backplane-to-backplane links, transport of IEEE-1394 isochronous data, and support of IEEE-1596 memory-update operations.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/email/msg00069.html
But first, this group needs to ask, among other potential use cases, should "1394 carriage over IP" be included as the legitimate use case for Residential Ethernet?
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1722/contributions/2007/avbtp-bartky-encapsulation-v0-05-2007-08-09.pdf
(see 802.1AS assumptions from AVB document)). • 61883 format over AVBTP will support presentation time in the same manner as 1394/61883 using the SYT field and in 24.576 MHz cycle time based on 802.1AS clock. – 61883-4 & 61883-7: Source Packet Header format with 0-127 seconds, 0-7999 8 kHz cycles, 0-3072 24.576 MHz sub-cycles.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1722/contributions/2007/AVB-TP-Sync-mmora-070620.pdf
One of the warts on IEC61883 is the lack of layering (one can't tell where 61883 stops and 1394 starts).
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/material/DVJ%20whitepapers/dvjReNext2005Aug10.pdf
IEEE Draft P802.17/D0.3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 Residential Ethernet (RE) (a working paper) The following paper represents an initial attempt to codify the content of multiple IEEE 802.3 Residential Ethernet (RE) Study Group slide presenta- tions.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/material/DVJ%20whitepapers/dvjReBars2005Aug10.pdf
IEEE Draft P802.17/D0.3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 Residential Ethernet (RE) (a working paper) The following paper represents an initial attempt to codify the content of multiple IEEE 802.3 Residential Ethernet (RE) Study Group slide presenta- tions.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/pub/2004/15-04-0011-00-0000-ieee-802-15-wg-minutes-from-vancouver-jan17.doc
March, 1994 DOC: IEEE P802.11-94/xxx January, 2004 IEEE P802.15-<15-04-0011-00-0000> IEEE P802.15 Wireless Personal Area Networks Project IEEE P802.15 Working Group for Wireless Personal Area Networks (WPANs) Title Date Submitted [16 January, 2004] Source [Pat Kinney] [] [address] Voice: [ ] Fax: [ ] E-mail: [ pat.kinney@ieee.org ] Re: [802.15 Interim Meeting in Vancouver] Abstract [IEEE 802.15 Working Group Minutes] Purpose [Official minutes of the Working Group Session] Notice This document has been prepared to assist the IEEE P802.15.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/public/200407/cfi_0704_1.pdf
– Several companies have home A/V equipment with Ethernet ports now, more to follow – Digital media is the norm for home and professional A/V • DVD for videos • CD, SACD, DVD-Audio for audio • Digital cable, digital satellite, High Definition TV – Convergence: • It’s not just a buzzword, it’s really happening • Computers are used to play videos and music • “Consumer media servers” with hard drive recorders – Increased penetration residential broad band access IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 10July 2004 Home Physical Infrastructure Home Physical Infrastructure • New homes are now being wired with UTP cable • According to the Consumer Electronics Association, 52% of new homes in the U.S. are constructed with structured wiring plants • ISO/IEC has just approved the standard for residential structured wiring plants (SC25/WG3) IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 11July 2004 It’s already happeningIt’s already happening Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA, was DHWG) is already developing higher-level protocols that use Ethernet as the physical layer – Professional audio has used several proprietary solutions for almost a decade • It’s very popular, but the solutions are proprietary (non- standard) – Professional video is looking for similar solutions – Using Ethernet will standardize the interface across computers and A/V equipment IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 12July 2004 In SummaryIn Summary – The home networking market has already chosen Ethernet for data • The “home” part of SOHO is growing rapidly each year • There are already products on the market from several manufacturers- --and there are more to come – The home audio/video industry is now deliberating about whether to choose Ethernet – The expansion of Ethernet into audio/video will potentially create a new market segment • Tens of millions of new Ethernet ports per year – With increased broad band penetration and the completion of EFM, the home is the next Ethernet challenge for A/V apps IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 13July 2004 A/V Home Entertainment A/V Home Entertainment RequirementsRequirements John Gildred Pioneer Alexei Beliaev Gibson Labs IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 14July 2004 A/V Has Time Sensitive ApplicationsA/V Has Time Sensitive Applications • Multi-Room Synchronization – Audio playback synchronized across multiple rooms – Video playback synchronized across multiple rooms and maintaining lip-sync • Network Trickplay – Multiple HDTVs accessing recorded shows on a Digital Video Recorder – Each TV attempts slow/fast playback at same time • Jam Session – Multiple instruments with live effects and mixing – Turn on instruments and immediately begin playing – 500uSec max latency, zero long term jitter • Gibson Guitar experience at 100Mbps IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 15July 2004 A/V Application Example Requirements A/V Application Example Requirements Asym. 0<100mSec*RequiredA/V Conferencing N/A<100mSec*RequiredNetwork VideoTrickplay Asym. 0500 usecRequired Jam session (live performance) Asym. 0500 usecRequired Multi-room synchronous audio playback Long term jitter Maximum latency Data/time guaranteeApplication *Round trip including application layer IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 16July 2004 Home Network Use Case I:Home Network Use Case I: Different Audio Tracks in Each RoomDifferent Audio Tracks in Each Room Living Room Study Bedroom Dining Room Kitchen Basement Network Attached Storage or Home Media Server Digital Audio Player Digital Audio Player Speakers Speakers Speakers Digital Audio Player IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 17July 2004 Home Audio Use Case IHome Audio Use Case I • User stores all his music files on a Network Attached Storage (Media Server) box connected via an Ethernet switch • Each room has a digital audio receiver, connected to Ethernet, which can access and play any song from the Media Server – Digital audio receivers drive local speakers over ordinary speaker wire IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 18July 2004 Living Room Study Bedroom Dining Room Kitchen Basement Network Attached Storage Or Home Media Server Digital Audio Player Digital Audio Player Speakers Speakers Speakers Digital Audio Player Same Track in Multiple RoomsSame Track in Multiple Rooms Home Network Use Case II:Home Network Use Case II: IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 19July 2004 Home Audio Use Case IIHome Audio Use Case II • Sometimes, the user wants one digital audio receiver to be the “master” and control what songs are played in other rooms through “slave” receivers – A single song in the whole house – A single song in selected rooms; e.g. living room, dining room, and study, but not bedroom • Simultaneous audio playing in multiple rooms requires synchronization and phase control of audio within the limits of human hearing to prevent “reverberation” throughout the house IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 20July 2004 Time Sensitive RequirementsTime Sensitive Requirements • Precise End-Point Synchronization – Data/time synchronization must be sufficiently precise at little or no cost – Ethernet today does not provide data/time synchronization • Bounded Jitter and Latency – Bounded jitter and latency per A/V application is required • Bandwidth Allocation Guarantee – Guaranteed protection from interfering streams is required • Plus All the Existing Benefits of Ethernet – e.g. minimum packet loss IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 21July 2004 Next Generation AV ConnectorNext Generation AV Connector Plug and Play IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 22July 2004 Next Generation AV ConnectorNext Generation AV Connector Clean and Simple IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 23July 2004 The Next Evolutionary StepThe Next Evolutionary Step (Missing Link with (Missing Link with PoEPoE Option)Option) 802.11e Ethernet 802.11e 1394 1394 Room #1 Room #2 Ethernet IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 24July 2004 Ethernet is EverywhereEthernet is Everywhere Ubiquitous, except in the homeUbiquitous, except in the home • Fast • Robust • Very familiar • Affordable right now • Very wide product selection • Growing momentum in CE industry IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 25July 2004 Next Generation AV ConnectorNext Generation AV Connector Universal Linkage IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 26July 2004 Consumer Electronics is Consumer Electronics is Ready for EthernetReady for Ethernet IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 27July 2004 Home Network Potential MarketHome Network Potential Market Seyoun Lim Samsung proyoun.lim@samsung.com IEEE 802.3 CFI Portland July 2004 28July 2004 The home network is at the heart of The home network is at the heart of the digital homethe digital home • Enabling home entertainment networks is key to opening up several large potential markets.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1722/contributions/2007/avbtp-bartky-encapsulation-v0-08-2007-11-04.pdf
(see 802.1AS assumptions from AVB document)). • 61883 format over AVBTP will support presentation time using AVBTP timestamp field instead of current 61883 SYT field – 1394/61883 to 1722/61883 gateways will have to take care of all SYT to AVBTP timestamp conversions, synchronization, cross timestamps, etc. – Editor’s note: Need to work out SYT field for SPH = 1 packets as timestamps are on a per source packet basis (MPEG packet) instead of in the CIP header. • AVBTP 61883 presentation time shall be relative to the 802.1AS clock • Adapt 1394 AV/C Function Control Protocol (FCP) for use in 61883 over AVBTP. • Proprietary encapsulations allowed via reserved subtype (7F16) • Allow for other future expansions via different subtypes.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/pub/2002/Mar02/02078r1P802-15_TG3-Minutes-Dallas-to_Schaumburg.doc
02078r0P802.15_TG3-Minutes Dallas Interim March, 1994 DOC: IEEE P802.11-94/xxx February 2002 IEEE P802.15.3 doc:. 02/078r0 IEEE 802.15 Wireless Personal Area Networks ( Project IEEE 802.15 Working Group for WPANs( Title IEEE 802.15 TG3 Minutes from Dallas to Schaumburg Date Submitted [29 January 2002] Sources Jim Allen Appairent Technologies, Inc. 150 Lucius Gordon Dr.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/pub/04/15-04-0011-00-0000-ieee-802-15-wg-minutes-from-vancouver-jan17.doc
March, 1994 DOC: IEEE P802.11-94/xxx January, 2004 IEEE P802.15-<15-04-0011-00-0000> IEEE P802.15 Wireless Personal Area Networks Project IEEE P802.15 Working Group for Wireless Personal Area Networks (WPANs) Title Date Submitted [16 January, 2004] Source [Pat Kinney] [] [address] Voice: [ ] Fax: [ ] E-mail: [ pat.kinney@ieee.org ] Re: [802.15 Interim Meeting in Vancouver] Abstract [IEEE 802.15 Working Group Minutes] Purpose [Official minutes of the Working Group Session] Notice This document has been prepared to assist the IEEE P802.15.
https://grouper.ieee.org/rac/private/email/msg01180.html
For example, see IEEE Std 1394-1995.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/public/200507/johasteener_2_050720.pdf
. • Bridging to non-802 nets – 1394/USB/MoCA Specifications must be met to use Trademark 720 July 2005 ResE Study Group Thank you!
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/email/msg00413.html
This is one place where the SG received conflicting information, so the more restrictive number was used ... since existence proofs (IEEE 1588 and IEEE 1394) shows that this kind of synchronization can easily be done with very low complexity.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/secmail/msg02609.html
. > > Examples: > > IEEE Std 802(R)-2002 or IEEE 802(R)-2002 > > IEEE 802(R) Working Group > > IEEE Std 802.11b(TM)-1999 > > IEEE 1394(TM) > > IEEE P1232(TM) > >If you have any questions, CONTACT Claudio Stanziola - IEEE Standards > >Activities - telephone +1 732 562 3804; " MailTo:c.stanziola@ieee.org" ;.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/17/email/msg02310.html
Most noteable are IEEE 754 Floating Point and IEEE 1394, and other microprocessor standards.
https://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/re_study/email/msg00520.html
The "gating" approach is _a_ solution that can is well tested on IEEE 1394 and can easily be shown to suffice.
https://grouper.ieee.org/rac/private/email/msg01481.html
. > >As an MSC representative, I would have provided >such a follow-up on the addresses used within >MSC sponsored projects (754, 1394, etc.), as >a duty to my position. > >I prefer to see the evidence before jumping into >denial or conclusions, since (through out my career) >I have seen suboptimal decisions made when this >ordering is reversed. > > >> >If you feel strongly about this, >Yes, I feel strongly about conservation of OUI space.